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Wheel of Time PK Mud catchup  discussions

2011/05/15 18:28, Nero: 
Anyone played this one? [submitted link]
It came up first in my google search for 'best PK mud'. Since I finally had the better part of a day to play and MUME wasn't there for me I found this one. So far it seems more primitive than MUME in some ways and more advanced in others. Looks like there is a 3 way race war, delayed bash/stab (but target leaving the room doesn't cancel it) and pretty diverse weapons and skills.

You do have to 'stat hunt' like old mume, but only until level 3. If you get crap stats (anything below 19 in your important stats it seems) you can just type 'restat' to go back to level 1 to try again.

2011/05/15 18:45, Telessar:   
I wrote about this in some log or thread on ER awhile back.

I had a couple of RL friends who I introduced to MUME and text based games in general. They had the read Wheel of Time series and found MUME too hard (wimps!) and too many people being jackasses, so they left for WoT MUD. I'll be honest, from what they tell me the game is thriving and the PK is great. Like MUME it has 3 sides and action at almost all times. People play to pk, and not for XP *cough*. One of them recently came back to MUME (for a short bit) and was disappointed to find that it wasn't PK anymore, since when he had left it was all about player killing!

Anyhow, yes it is similar to MUME because afaik it is a DIKUMUD and the founders/creaters of WoT MUD had played MUME III or something before making this new MUD :-). You even get argblebargleglypglof or whatever it is iirc in the game.

2011/05/15 18:51, Telessar:   
That being said, MUME is still better in my opinion only because it feels 'more advanced' as something you noticed. I heard something about if you flee in that game, you can't move as much anymore which seems a little stupid.

I got the impression that I got from my friend was that it's more or less like 'Old' MUME, with more 'fair fights' and 'nicer people'. We should introduce Elestir/Luke/Overkill/Trap to that MUD, would be funny :X

2011/05/15 18:55, Nero: 
Well how long does it take to get legend (which seems to be lvl 30)? We can't play mume so we may as well raid these guys with our advanced lameness!

From what I've read so far it doesn't seem like they have a block door spell, they seem to just do bottleneck killing. There is something you can do called 'dlining' to get past it though. Apparently you hit something in the room next to the one you want to 'dline' past and then flee and prespam your next dir. If everything goes right you will walk through the room with the enemies without them having a chance to hit you.

They do have doors though (don't know about keys yet) and the portal spell, which is cheaper mana but costs 5 more for every person who comes through.

2011/05/15 19:06, Telessar:   
I didn't get very far, but my friend says a 'a day or two of dedicated leveling'. In fact, I never got past level 1 (and I was only trying to level so I could spam narrate about MUME :-)). I do recall lots of eq just lying on the ground, so it can't be too hard to level up.

2011/05/15 19:29, Windwalker:   
Hey do any of you know why mume is not connectable today? I have been trying on many links and can not get on.? Anyone know whats going on?

2011/05/15 19:38, Telessar:   
Not sure, but there's been some speculation on randomrunes.

2011/05/15 19:50, Windwalker:   
Let me guess .. the main server caught on fire again.. lol happened a few years ago so fiured .. I just hope its them updating new zones like maybe rohan or suron black castle.. :) would be nice.

2011/05/15 20:22, Nero: 
Thread hijackers GTFO! :)

2011/05/15 22:59, Ishamael:   
Used to play it. The creators were ex MUMErs, so at first they were quite similar.

PK is based on spamming at chokepoints and sometimes chasing (it doesn't cost moves to spam k *enemy*). Zones are far chokier than most MUME zones, and also less logical (not just 10x10 square zones). Codewise it is far less sophisticated than MUME (no muddle, just very slow mobol, so no fancy spells or weapons or quests or rooms, no bows, no weapon speed, all rounds are the same length). Spells are basically just damage, healing, and teleportation. No stored spells, watch room, detect magic, invisibility. There is no move lag for grouping, but a max group size. There is no LOS, so more than one caster in a group means they can target one person dead with no consequences. Solo PK happens, but more often than not it is big groups smashing into each other. Dark side has no casters, so generally PK is approximately even, then a few Light side casters show up and kill half the Dark group, then the rest run away and PK is dead for an hour.

Classes are pure, so if you want to cast, you have to be a pure caster, and they have terrible stats, so you may have to stat hunt for literally weeks or months to get a super caster. This is absolutely the worst aspect of the game. If you want to play a certain character type, you just have to grind for stats (level from 1->5, get shitty stats, restat back to level 1, level up agains...), and it is very difficult to get good combos. High str and con is easy to get, but high dex along with them is very rare, so you'll be stuck playing abs (armor warrior). Backstab, sneak, and hide are incredibly powerful, stabbers can one-hit kill almost any class with a good stab. Track is manual, and cannot distinguish between similarly named mounts, making tracking down a victim difficult.

In general the players are a lot nicer than MUME players, less cliques and psychopaths, though there is a bit of an 'old boys club'. RP is also present, there is one clan that targets casters because of their RP, and inter-race warfare happens. There is no Elbereth or Mandos rules, sameside killing happens, but has RP consequences (if you become known as a murderer you will be hunted). Mob support exists in many zones, but only inside cities are mobs as powerful as hardons. Even so, raiding inside cities to finish off a wounded enemy is common.

It can be a fun place, but the code limitations and in some cases IMM idiocy really hampers it. Getting killed by stupid bugs (there was a well-known bug where you could get bashed and then backstabbed for years, for example) gets frustrating after a while. The IMMs aren't as fascist as the MUME ones for the most part, but they can be very short sighted and idiotic about gameplay and rules and changing things.

2011/05/16 03:58, Nero:edited 2x   
Thanks for the info. One update though: stat hunting is now from level 1->3. Also, not sure what you mean by classes being pure. As far as I can tell, the non-pure penalty in this game is just that off-class pracs cost more pracs. E.g. if you're a caster then warrior pracs cost 3 or 4 instead of 1.

Also, for some reason human casters have to keep the fact that they're casters secret because if they are found out they will be hunted as well. Since the dark side can't talk to the light side, this means if you want to use your spells you have to pk solo (e.g. bash+nuke). Also male casters can't cast too much or their character goes insane and stops doing exactly what they tell it to. Apparently if you don't want this to happen you have to become a 'dark friend' and eventually join the dark side.

Was that in the game when you played? Is it fun or lame?

2011/05/17 21:46, Goretongue: 
I played WotMUD when it first came out. Started getting up to a decent level, then got into a little pk skirmish where I killed the 'wrong' guy a couple times. He was trying to punk someone in my guild, what was I supposed to do? Anyway this guy I beat down logged off and moments later I was demoted to level 1. Apparently he was one of the admins. That was the last time I logged in that place.

2011/05/17 21:52, Ryalnos:   
Rofl Goretongue, that's pretty bad.

2011/05/18 08:02, Nero: 
I don't think it's like that now. Apparently on the 'light side' clans are not only fighting the other 2 races but there are clan wars always going on as well.

Anyway, it doesn't matter now since MUME is back. :)

2011/05/18 14:43, Wobbler:   
I played it some back when it was really new, it was essentially a poor clone of MUME V/VI with several interface niceties missing - even counting coins for shopping was bothersome. 90% of the population were people who only played while MUME was down, but most of those moved to the other American spin off (Return of the Shadow) when that one opened. I haven't played that one for many years either, but it was more fun than WoT when MUME was down, at least as darkie.

While MUME VI had a far, far superior prac system (better than V, despite my poor little 7 con Elf mage Apelsin losing Transfer), there have been so many important improvements since then I really couldn't stand playing some tick-based regen, standard DIKU MUD these days.

2011/05/18 14:51, Telessar:   
Just went on Return of the Shadow, it is so dead :( 2 players on.

2011/05/18 15:22, Atticus:   
Were they both p)snakr?

2011/05/18 16:43, Nero: 
lol @snakr joke. I don't think WOT is tick based anymore. They brag about 'this advanced new system where regin works faster!' in the docs and the little time I played seemed like it was a similar system to mume (a bit faster I'd say).

Yes, the money thing is kind of embarrassing. Skins seem to be strange as well (can wear it, but have to take it off to drink from it?).

2011/05/18 19:54, Ortansia:   
It sounds like a good mud, I guess I will try it :)

2011/05/19 05:06, Ishamael:  edited 2x   
I haven't played for 6 months or more, so I may have missed new changes, but regen happens on the tick and the half-tick. Another big difference is that there is a bank and a rent storage system so you can save your money and eq over deaths. You also get spamlooted every single time (it's normal, nobody complains about it), so you will need that storage. Rules about EQ transferring are also a lot looser, so lots of highbies have a 'storage char' where they bank eq and then switch it over to their main char when they die. For this reason, some people are more generous with eq, and some are more greedy (they want to store it). There are a few active and dedicated IMMs, but there is only one coder anymore, so it takes forever for any important changes to be made.

By pure classes I meant that you have to choose your class at creation and cannot ever change it, so you are stuck with that prac system and class bonuses. Also, only casters (channelers) can cast, it is impossible for a non-caster to learn any spells at all.

For RP reasons, male channelers (MCs) are hunted, and it is hard coded that they eventually go insane if they use magic a lot (commands become randomized). Female channelers are more accepted, there are a few clans that hunt them for RP reasons, but many other clans welcome them since they are so powerful in PK, although to get access to high-level spells you have to join an RP-based clan and pretend to be a little girl wearing a dress and scrubbing pots in a kitchen for about 2 RL years before you are allowed to PK (not joking).

One other RP thing is 'Darkfriends,' which are double agents for the Dark Side inside Light Side clans. Basically if you want to, you can create a human char, join a clan, and then side with the Dark Side and help them out, give them info, betray your friends. If you keep it up for a very long time without getting caught, you can be remorted as a powerful DS char. Ordinary DS chars can also remort by joining a clan and getting 1500 quest points (you get 3 QPs for turning in a human scalp, but keep in mind you don't always get the scalp in a group kill).

One last thing: when you flee, you cannot enter commands anymore (they go through after the flee), so there is no way to get out of a door unless you have a friend spamming it for you. For this reason, entering doors is an incredibly risky thing to do, since if you are outnumbered it is basically a deathtrap. However, there is no block/break door spell either.

2011/05/19 05:20, Aerie: 
Do they have a Log page like elvenrunes?

2011/05/19 20:40, Nero: 
If you keep it a secret that you're helping the dark side, how does anyone find out? Apparently if you don't cast more than 3 spells at a time (don't go below what mume would call hot) you wont go insane and once you go to the dark side you can't in any case.

How do you help the dark side? I thought you couldn't even talk to them?

2011/05/19 22:09, Ishamael:   
Logs get posted/discussed at [submitted link]

To become a Darkfriend you have to contact the leading clan of the DS (the Chosen), which is composed of DS remorts. The DS remorts (fades and dreadlords, which are the only DS casters), can speak the human language, but DS and LS can also communicate through mail, go figure.

In practice, the only people who become Darkfriends and successfully remort are people who have high-ranking DS friends or IMM friends. Also, several were outed OOCly, but because of RP reasons there was no way out out them ICly, so they still got away with it.

2011/05/21 04:48, Goretongue: 
Ah just as corrupt as back in the early '90s. Glad I discovered so before I invested much time there.

2011/05/21 07:47, Nero: 
It would suck if you have to have high up friends but the mail thing makes sense (would be a similar situation in China for example since they have thousands of languages but all the same written language) and it's good that they stick to RP enough that just because you know a character is an MC RL you have no way of making your char know that.

2011/05/21 11:24, Winzy: 
From a log in there,
You have played 275 days and 16 hours (real time).

2011/05/27 09:29, Ortansia:   
Can anyone help me started ? :)

2011/05/27 12:12, Nero: 
yea, let's raid the place. We'll all make male channelers and wreak havoc!

2011/05/27 17:10, Ortansia:   
Well Im stuck at the main page :p, I didn't find where to download the client. So anyone willing to help me?

2011/05/27 17:49, Wobbler:   
Is only their own, custom client allowed?

2011/05/27 19:00, Ågran:   
No, I tried it out with PowTTY.

2011/05/27 20:15, Ortansia:   
@Ågran I have powtty :) what is the server and port I should use?

2011/05/27 22:50, Ågran: 2222

2011/05/28 00:04, Ortansia:  edited 1x   
Thanks Ågran :)

Btw I made a troll , send me a tell when you see me on! :p

2011/05/28 06:55, Nero: 
Client? I just used my normal MUME client. A lot of the same subs even work.

2011/05/28 12:53, Ortansia:   
Well everything is going fine :), I got helped by a nice guy, he made me download cmud which contains a mapper :). So now I can move around and xp .

It seems like playerbase is very active there :)

2011/05/30 06:34, Aerie: 
If people are up for giving this game a serious shot I'm down let us mumers show them how its done ;)

2011/05/30 10:48, Chark:   
I tested it shortly. Otherwise looks interesting, but the restatting thing is real turn-off for me. Some people there stat-hunt hundreds (or even thousands) times for the best stats for a character. Reroll thing isn't convenient in mume but at least we get to pick our stats. I still may play it occasionally. At least new areas to explore.

2011/05/30 15:43, Nero: 
I would tend to agree but on the other hand, every e.g. orc warrior in MUME probably has one of about 3 stat setups. On this game it's you vs. the machine. Which one will give up first. I'm sure that will mean you end up with more stat diversity as I don't believe everyone is willing to keep going until they get the exact kind of stats they want.

2011/05/31 23:37, Deimus: 
I have two level 30+ characters there. A hunter and an MC. I will still go back and stat MC's every now and then just to see what I get. In the end, however, I always drift off due to the enormity of learning a game as well as I already know MUME - it sucks being 10 years behind the curve. Not to mention, there is a maddening ideology among the playerbase known as FOFY (Find Out For Yourself) that essentially means they will stonewall you on providing any information as to area layout, pk chokepoints or smob strategy. Don't believe me? Log in and ask on narrate for directions to the crazed ogier, or how to sail the ocean going boats. All you will receive in return is 'That's FOFY.' They think it makes more self sufficient players; what it does in reality is drive away newcomers who cannot hope to ever challenge the established elite and their 'secret' knowledge.

On top of that, both the admin and the playerbase have well-deserved reputations of being blatant favoritists. Essentially, if you aren't one of the popular kids or didn't kiss up to the right clan immortal, you will never be allowed to accomplish any of the fun stuff: master quests (clan rank 7 which provides substantial damage bonuses to your character as well as different stances - and MUST be initiated by an imm), remorting to dreadlord or fade, or being permitted to join - let alone apply to - any of the more 'elite' clans such as the Gaidin or the Shienaran Lancers.

Imo, skip it. Mume is far and away a superior game. It not only 'feels' cleaner (Wot is very cluttered in its presentation), but is infinitely more stable. Spend a week on WoTmud and soon the twice daily crashes will drive you nuts. Wot will never be anything more than a poor ripoff, albeit with a larger playerbase.

2021/09/28 09:17, Nero: 
So I tried out WotMUD again recently just to see. I think it's changed a fair amount since the last posts. For one thing, now almost any char can get prerolled stats instead of having to stat hunt: all light side characters except MC can and trolloc can but I think the prerolled are pretty poor for trolloc.

They also often do xp multipliers to speed up leveling. On a 5x day I got from 1 to 30 in about 2-3 hours. I heard the FC clan (Tower) is not as bad as it was. Now you get these quest points for e.g. doing dishes. There is apparently still an RP aspect but people are getting their Shawl in months or even weeks now instead of years.

2021/11/02 17:11, Nero: 
So I've been on this for a few weeks now. I have a bunch of characters to 30+. A few things I've learned:

- It seems to be like an older version of MUME. Delay commands don't check anything until the delay is over so you can do things like double stabs, stab bashed people and so on if you can time it right.

- It has more variation in weapons. Like there is a flail weapon you can get which will hit all mobs that are attacking you. This tremendously speeds up XP and it's common to practice for flails until lvl 30 or so no matter what your class is (assuming you can survive tanking 3 trees long enough to kill them)

- I have a Male Channeller up to level 44 or so and I've only recently stopped killing trees. The bulk of XP comes from when something dies and seems to vary based on mobs more than level of those mobs. You also need a partner after level 30 or you suffer pretty large XP penalties. You want to go to a pet shop and rent a chicken because this stops the penalty and gives you more xp since the xp is divided based on levels between the group. So 2 level 30's will split evenly but if you have a chicken you get almost everything.

- At 40 I now kill skeletal wolves (can't kill two headed lizards with an MC yet). I get nearly 500k for one kill, I scalp it and can turn in this scalp for another 500k per kill.... (note: all numbers for XP are based on having at least 4x multiplier but I don't even XP if it's less than that)

- MC isn't nearly as hard as people say. At least not yet. I do have to stay 'hidden' or I will be hunted by everyone but they have some strict RP stuff. It's very obvious I'm an MC because I don't group with people and my hometown is common for MC but unless someone sees me channel no one can call me an MC. Also the merchant clans don't care if you're an MC but some groups have to hunt and kill you.

- The levels top out of 51 so it seems you can reach max level very quick. But the game doesn't stop there. It opens up with clanning. There are skills which can only be done if in a clan. That's one of the reasons I've focused on MC: Female channellers can't get the best weaves unless they clan with the tower which is very RP heavy and takes more time than I'm willing to invest. Everyone gets special clanning skills like hunters can bash multiple people at once if they are in the right clan.

- Don't make warriors. They are currently worse than hunters in every way.

- Your class options on light side are: rogue, hunter, channeler. All the others can't have channellers.

- The hardest part, by FAR, about MC is you have to stat it. For everything else on the light side, you just need to hit level 3 and tell guardian stats. This will give you really good stats already so no real reason to go for more.

- You don't get much XP from pk but you do get clanning things and I think most of the 'levelling' is actually happening in the clanning given how easy it is to hit 51. No one complains about gac, it's what everyone does.

- The 'third' side are called Seanchan. They share the same narrate/chat channel with light side and can team up with them against dark side. Otherwise they kill each other.

- The only ways to get a caster on the dark side is through clanning. You can start as light side as a caster and either join the Seanchan by getting a collar put on you (don't know more details than that) or becoming a 'dark friend' to work with the DS. You can also clan to become a Dreadlord, I think from dark friend or even any dark side character but this is clanning and I've not done any yet. Instead of a dread lord you can become a fade but I think these are more warrior types who can teleport.

- There is apparently no 'delay' as we know it on MUME and the server is in the US. There is only a move cost for your first kill, not the rest so the fighting seems very different than how it works on MUME. You can stand in a bottleneck and hold down your kill target button to stop people getting past. There is no block door but due to how the delay stuff works fleeing out a door is probably impossible. Especially since only the first flee is free. Every one after that will have a delay which gets progressively worse.

- Regin is on the tick and half tick.

- There is no reveal command or anything like that. You need to practice notice up to 90% or so to mostly see everyone. This WILL NOT, however, stop you from getting stabbed. The only way to do that is walk out (and stay out!) before the stab goes in or hit the stabber. You can hit a hidden person by putting h. in front of their name but this will cost a move every time you do it (e.g. kill h.dark).

- People don't hunt lowbies like on MUME. They even change how you look if you're below level 20. You *can* kill them but people don't and I think the community even enforces this.

- There are lots of same side fighting on the light side. The tower are lunatics that hunt MC and even people they think might be sometimes. There are other LS clans which hate each other and will kill each other on sight. I've never seen this on the DS.

2021/11/02 17:44, Nero:edited 1x   
Oh, and if you decide to try this: use mudlet. I don't know what your favourite client is but if it's not mudlet you lost. It's over. Just get mudlet and stop pretending you're a snowflake. After you do get this: [submitted link]

It has a map and all kinds of commands, triggers and so on to make the mud nicer. Personally I've shut nearly everything off in favour of the setup I use on MUME but I still use the map. :)

2021/11/03 17:37, Ain: 
For me the lagg is insane, 150ms link to that game.
at some moments i can'g get in the gates as they open the insta you call but the movement does not go through before gates are closed again.

2021/11/03 21:01, Nero: 
Like I said, servers are in the US. But I type 'call' to get the gates open and the direction together as quickly as I can. There's no delay on the game side as far as I know.

2021/11/06 15:56, Nero: 
Hit 51 (max level) with my first character. An MC. :) Now I need to get a golden ring for it so I can begin my career as an evil man.

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