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2017/12/11 15:56, Lens:   
I haven't posted here in a long time but it seems like y'all are still talking in circles. I was however shocked with Razoor's comment about how ideological purity is more important than the well being of the people. That's the kind of comment only someone who has never been without certainty of comfort their entire life can make. It's the attitude of people who visit poor friends on the weekend or go do some volunteer work then think they know what it is like. People like that have no clue, and will have no clue until they have lived it without choice.

Honestly you guys care too much, do much more than me. Why should I care about unproven allegations against Trump or Moore? The Mueller investigation is a political hit job with no credibility. Why should I care about a some nobody making hundreds of tweets instead of writing an article?

I won't post again for a while but the entirety of the anti-trump movement and the comments here are the equivalent of a baby crying. Waa waa Trump says bad things, waa waa look at this tweets he will got jail because twittering is obstruction of justice, waa waa your nation should decline because success is opressive to lazy people.

Being a leader does not mean following. It means listening and then doing what you think is right no matter what others may think.

2017/12/11 16:17, Fieldy: 
It actually depends on where you are a leader. Being a leader in private company, public institution or a bank are totally different. Trump is good for a private company, not a public institution.

There is no 'waa waa' solely over him. Quite a few other subjects have gone through here.

2017/12/11 16:57, Razoor: 
Interesting point Lens. I think my argument is that ’ideological purity’ as you call it (I am personally against any form of ideology, but w/e) actually REFLECTS the well-being of the people, and more so than simply economic prosperity. To take an example, China is doing exceedingly well economically, yet many citizens are not entirely happy with what they perceive as a lack of influence over political processes. That was my point with respect to Trump - I would not be happy with a president like that, and small temporary economic gains are not going to change that perception. I think your argument would be valid if we were talking about a very poor country where fully I concede that economic gains can be more important, but we’re not talking about such a country, but the economic superpower of US.

2017/12/11 17:02, Bardock:   
This just keeps getting better, Razoor now finally admits he cares nothing about facts and actual evidence or sources cited, he literally only cares for information that appeases his staunch confirmation bias. Razoor is so uninformed he does not even pay attention to the latest breaking news, not only does he not know Moores accusers have now come out and said they fabricated the notes and stories they created but he does not know that the articles and sources I linked were directly from the DOJ. Just because Infowars reports on them does not invalidate them. Razoor only cares about feelings, he makes this quite clear that facts do not disturb his hunger for bias. There is still not one shred of evidence that Trump colluded with Russia, the entire investigation was based off a false document and FISA warrents were granted from this false document, the DOJ is grilling the team on the congressional floor, this is why people like Razoor, who fail to do any actual research, will continue to bite fake news stories and ignore reality. Lens was spot on with his latest post. Razoor is so wrapped up in fairy tale and opinion articles he cant take two seconds to check my link and see the sources are not infowars, they are the department of justice and members of congress leading the inquisition of the botched muellar team. Rofl, I need to break out my popcorn and just sit here and watch Razoor, once again eat fake news and come here spewing stuff, only to be moments later proven absolutely false. This has become a great past time for me , watching Razoor epicly fail yet again. If Razoor cared at all about being factual and having correct information he would do the 10 minutes of research before regurgitating fake news talking points. Its pretty clear at this point, Razoor said it himself, hes not concerned with facts or sources, only hysterical opinion pieces and known fake news contributors. What should be really alarming is they can never provide evidence for any claims but scoff at mine when they come from the Department of Justice. Its actually hilarious. Keep it up Razoor, Its purely entertaining at this point , watching you blunder through simple and verifiable information.

I should go easier on you, it must be hard being part of the sinking ship of the EU, criticizing a country that is shattering economic records and coming into prosperity. I am sure no one bothered to read the top EU economist who said 'the EU is failing and at a point of no return' That has got to be a hard reality to cope with, I wont take it to personal when you come here with your anti American hysteria, I need to be more compassionate of the sad situation over there and know you guys arent doing this to be mean but your truly in peril.


Ah well, still hoping someone can provide evidence and sources and enough anecdotal emotional filled nonsense.

2017/12/11 17:30, Fieldy: 
Yaaaaawn@Mithfalen

Still avoiding answering questions I see?

2017/12/11 17:33, Lens:   
Financial super power but no longer a manufacturing super power due to out sourcing. A large percentage of our recent GDP growth had been in manufacturing which grows the middle class and benefits communities more than retail or service jobs. I honestly believe that post-industrial societies are going to tank hard, that real wealth is created by work not moving numbers on a spreadsheet.

I don't see the difference between a public institution and private where leadership is concerned. For example no one could consider the UN to exhibit leadership when it comes to security since they are nearly always powerless due to consensus being required.

Also just to clarify I would support impeachment of Trump provided there is concrete evidence he was compromised and Putin's pet but not if he was dealing with them politically or minor obstruction of justice like an underling lying to the FBI without his knowledge. If it's not something serious I do not care that much.

2017/12/11 17:43, Bardock:   
Small temporary economic gains, apparently Razoor has no idea what raising GDP from below 3 percent to now almost 4 means for America.......

Lol if 1 percent GDP is a small temporary gain , I think Razoor needs to reevaluate his thesis.

2017/12/11 17:48, Fieldy: 
Word - regarding the GDP thing and the last paragraph on Trump. Although I have a bad feeling about Ducky.

The leader thing is the problem that if you have a private company you do everything in your means to make it more profitable. In public sector you have a lot more info from different sides to take into and often there is some group who will be the losing side. You can't run a public sector entity like a company to maximize profit, because the main idea is to keep it efficient or to scatter money around where it is the most necessary. I've seen some mayors running country capitals really badly. You can make a public entity extremely efficient, but that rarely happens.

2017/12/12 00:01, Bardock:  edited 3x   
Sorry Fieldy but your immature behavior and refusal to engage in adult conversations has forced me to ignore you. If you can prove me otherwise, I may give you another chance. Until then I am no longer responding to you. You have done everything to waste my time and I see no point in further communications with an individual engaged in the tactics you are abiding by.


Lol, this whole house of cards is crumbling. I love it, I love being right.
[submitted link]
#2 [submitted link]
how about actually looking into the facts? Anyone of you actually considered doing some research instead of jumping into a feverish confirmation bias?

2017/12/12 06:09, Fieldy: 
Yaaaawn@Zepir

I just try to come down to your level to see whether it is possible to communicate with you then. And I know, you really like to be right, that is why you have difficulties responding to others questions that contradict your arguments. It is a sign of a beginner debater.

2017/12/13 08:27, Razoor: 
Lol, did you just spend a whole paragraph saying how much I suck rather than responding to my arguments? You take ad hominem to a whole new level! I’ll take that as a small victory since you actually didnt refute a single point, just babbled about fake news.

Btw, GDP was already on an upwards trajectory since 1960, so Trump is in some ways just riding the wave. It’s just that because GDP growth is normal for you guys, no other president made such a big deal out of it because their voter bases understood this. What’s different now is that the Trump base has no knowledge of economics and so you think GDP growth is like something new and amazing, but actually it’s just status quo. Your average GDP growth rate over the past 60 years is 3,2%, Trump is either ignorant about this or playing his voter base.

Given how much he’a gutting the public sector you’d need a far higher growth rate to even begin to compensate.

2017/12/13 09:22, Savu:   
For Zepir: [submitted link]
- look at 10Y for reference, I don't really see anything out of the regular during your current prez.

2017/12/13 11:37, Razoor: 
Indeed Savu. And, importantly, GDP growth doesnt consider wealth or income disparity which is a much more important indicator of how a country is doing. And we all know US has a huge problem with wealth disparity, which will tear at the social fabric and cause problems that arent solved by more GDP growth...you need entirely different policies for that, but Trump doesnt know or care cause he runs the US like a company, not a country (though salary disparity would be bad for a company too in the long run).

2017/12/13 12:22, Prist: 
Additionally - almost whole developed world is going through economic boom, unrelated to Trump and related to quantitative easening (aka moneyprinting). It is not something that is unique to the US alone. Even much-maligned (by Zepir at least) EU economy is growing faster than it is in a decade.

2017/12/13 17:43, Bardock:  edited 2x   
You do not have any arguments, you do not have any sources, you do not have any evidence. You have hysterical opinions and a vast resources of fake news articles that last about 24 hours before being discredited. I am hoping you find some sort of sources or evidence supporting anything you claim but that has yet to come to fruition.

[submitted link]


if anyone cares about the Muellar team getting absolutely grilled and shut down on the congressional floor. Hows that for a source? Just because it was on Infowars does not make it untrue.

Oh ya , I forgot

[submitted link]


EX CIA Spy chief saying the Russia Collusion story is bullshit

'
An ex-spy chief who spoke out publicly against Trump while inspiring other career intelligence figures to follow suit has admitted his leading role in the intelligence community waging political war against the president, describing his actions as something he didn’t “fully think through”. In a surprisingly frank interview, the CIA’s Michael Morell – who was longtime Deputy Director and former Acting Director of the nation’s most powerful intelligence agency – said that it wasn’t a great idea to leak against and bash a new president.'


Do your research, its a open and shut case at this point. This is why I stress doing investigative work instead of just jumping to conclusions or the first fake news story the fake news apparatus of the US churns out. Sadly I do not think Razoor will ever learn this lesson.

I sit here and I link videos from the congressional floor and I get told my sources are bad. You keep proving my point over and over regarding being lazy and just eating up whatever info is on one of your bias echo chambers. There was collusion between the DOJ and fusion dps to use a democratic funded document for legal and political purposes. We are talking about a crime and scandal bigger then anything since watergate. The Ex CIA chief is now coming out and revealing the plan I have been stating all along. A coordinated effort to remove a democratically elected President, outside of law.

I find it very interesting my source are always questioned but seem to come out as right every last time. Remember when you touted the Piss gate dossier Razoor when it first came out with zero research? Remember that? I do, I told you then Fusion GPS was a democratic plant. Very curious that my source are always questioned yet you people never leave one single sources while bashing on mine. Very hypocritical. Like I said, you wont ever learn your lesson but oh well.


2017/12/13 17:45, Vra:   
If the Russia story is fake news then it should end fairly soon. However if it is fake news then why do you have 2 people pleading guilty to certain charges. It might not have been Trump doing something bad, but that Flynn seems pretty dam shady. Why not just let them finish and stop complaining. Is it not important to find out what Russia was up too? If you’re so confident that Trump is innocent then you have nothing to fear.

2017/12/13 17:59, Bardock:  edited 1x   
I think free and democratic people need to be worried about the secondary government apparatus , AKA the CIA and FBI, trying to throw a democratically elected president out of office.

Regarding GDP, do you remember what Lens pointed out about GDP, its because thousands of companies are coming back and manufacturing in the USA again and small business numbers are better the ever. Other countries doing similar is not even a compassion. 3 percent to 4 percent for the US is monumental and its only the begging. These tax cuts will be the rocket fuel for the economy. Claiming Trump is riding some wave is just ignorant and not very well researched. He is the reason the economy is booming, look at the market exuberance being at all time high expecting tax cuts and now they are getting them.

You can hate Trump all you want, the fact is the American people elected him to be President, your just going to have to deal with it. There are far more things to be concerned in your own nations then to obsess over a foreign leaders every last comment , hand gesture and word. Hes not going anywhere and hes going to go down as the best President in the last 100 years.

2017/12/13 18:13, Fieldy: 
Its like watching a monkey with a peanut in a jar.

2017/12/13 19:35, Prist: 
Zepir, do you actually even read the links you post? Honestly, do you? Or do you read Infowars quotes without actually going to source? Here, I'll link you the full article: [submitted link]
So, you say that EX CIA Spy chief saying the Russia Collusion story is bullshit. I actually read the full article, unlike you. I'll copy you the actual article here what he says:

Glasser: No, I think that’s a great point to make, and I think it’s so important. So, Russiagate? Or whatever we want to call it. I don’t know if you have a better name for it than that. Based on your intelligence analyst hat, looking at the dots that are out there—how do we construct a narrative around them that makes sense? Is there enough information to construct a narrative? What do you make of the evidence that’s public, recognizing that it’s a very small amount of the evidence, presumably?

Morell: The best place to start is with a caveat, is I have no insight into the FBI investigation or the two investigations being done by the Intelligence Committees in the House and Senate. So, this is really me being an analyst, looking at everything that’s available, right?

The first thing I’d say is that there may be a benign explanation for all of this. What might that be? The benign explanation is that Vladimir Putin, understanding who Donald Trump was as a person, understanding how narcissistic he is, played to Donald Trump by saying he was a great guy—right? Had the potential to be a great leader, et cetera, et cetera.

And Trump responded exactly the way Putin wanted him to by reciprocating, right? Great leader, et cetera, et cetera. Right? Maybe what he did in Ukraine and Crimea was all right. Who are we to say? You know, Putin’s killed all these people, but so do we. You know, try to put this in perspective. Right? All of these things that Trump said could have been simply in response to Putin playing him, and playing his personality.

You know, when all that happened, of course, the media and the Clinton campaign jumped all over Donald Trump, right?—and said, “Boy, look at what this guy’s saying,” right? “This is inconsistent with the world in which we live in.” It is possible at that moment, that Steve Bannon and Steve Miller and Sebastian Gorka walked into Trump’s office in Trump Tower and said, “You know, you’re being criticized for what you said about Putin and Russia, but, boss, you’re right. Right? You’re absolutely right, and let us give you the intellectual context in which to think about this. And the intellectual context in which to think about it is, we actually need Russia as a partner, to push back against the two biggest threats that we see.”

Glasser: Right. China, yes.

Morell: Bannon, Miller and Gorka. China and Islamic extremism. And, Russia, a white, Christian country, fits—

Glasser: Their worldview.

Morell: Their worldview. Right? So, Putin might have played him, and then Bannon gives him an intellectual framework to say, “You’re right. Keep talking about this.” So, that is the totally benign view.

Am I open to the possibility that there is a malign view? Absolutely. I don’t discard that. I’ve been criticized by some people on the left for saying I don’t see any evidence here of a crime. I still don’t see any evidence of a crime. It doesn’t mean there is any. I just don’t see it.

Glasser: Including evidence of obstruction of justice?

Morell: So, let’s talk about what I think the possibilities are, going forward. So, I would not be surprised if Bob Mueller concludes that the Trump campaign did not violate the law with regard to its interactions with the Russians. I’m really open to that possibility. Why? Because, as you know, The New York Times, The Washington Post, every media outlet that is worth its salt has reporters digging into this, and they haven’t found anything.
And I think that, had there been something there, they would have found something. And I think Bob Mueller would have found it already and it would have leaked.
So, I’m really open to the possibility that there’s no there there on a crime being committed by the campaign and the Russians. Right? That interaction leading to criminal charges.

The second point I’d make is that I wouldn’t be surprised if there were single individuals who were associated with the campaign who violated the law with respect to their interactions with the Russians on the election. Paul Manafort comes to mind. I think he has little to no integrity. There’s no way you spend that much time with the old Ukrainian government and not bump up against Russian intelligence officers a lot.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were single individuals who faced criminal charges here with regard to their interactions with the Russians, and Paul Manafort’s a possibility. But that’s different than a conspiracy by the campaign, right?

The third thing I’d say is, every FBI investigation that I’ve ever had visibility into or been involved in, the people who they’re looking at actually don’t end up getting charged with the crime they were being investigated for. They get charged with something else. Right? And that something else in this case could be the laundering of Russian organized crime funds. And if that was done by the Trump organization—if that was done knowingly—it’s a criminal violation.

If it was done unwittingly, because you didn’t do the due diligence that’s required under U.S. law for where the money is coming from, from overseas—it’s a civil penalty. And the Trump organization gets fined. What the politics of all that is, I have no idea. That’s the third thing I’d say.

The fourth thing I’d say is, the obstruction of justice issue. In my view, when I read the statute, boy, it looks—you know, it looks like you could make a case. Now, the hard part is intent. Right? You have to intend to violate the statute. You have to intend to obstruct justice. That’s the difficult piece to prove here.

You need something on paper, or you need somebody who heard the president say something about what he was trying to do here, or you need him to tell you that. Right? Well, he’s not going to do that. And so, while it looks like it to all of us, that that’s what he was trying to do—you’ve got to get to that intent part, and that’s what’s hard from a criminal perspective.


TL;DR: He says he doesn't know, that it is easily possible that Trump is easily used (played) by both Putin and people around him, that he has no evidence to prove either if it's malignant (intent) or not but he's waiting for investigation to end. He also says that it might look like obstruction of justice case but that's hard to prove.

Nowhere does he state that it's bullshit but instead he says that investigation will hopefully show the truth.

Please read the actual sources, not infowars quotes.

2017/12/13 19:50, Savu:   
I think not reading the articles he posts is more of a rule than an exception in Zepirs case.

2017/12/13 20:41, Bardock:  edited 3x   
Prist, obviously it was my paraphrase. He didnt literally say that. Is that all you have? Play on of my words? You watched the congressional hearings I assume then? Infowars did not even quote him as saying that, I said that. I gave alot of information and links to the hearings so you could listen yourself, did you look into it at all? No you just went off on a tangent of me paraphrasing something that was not even in the infowars article. More derailing of the actual important key detail here, the congressional hearings and movement to shut down the entire investigation on the basis it has not one single piece of evidence and now has been thoroughly compromised by political agents and the DOJ. You cant argue that, you wont argue that. Instead you go off and post an article I have already read and obviously did not even open the infowars link because it contained none of that inside of it. Its really hard for you people to come to terms with the fact that Trump is president.


Surely you have something more to say about the vast amount of information regarding that case now? You just wish to derail the actual narrative once again and not address the fact the investigation is a complete sham and the DOJ is involved in some serious fraud against Trump.



-------------------------------------------------------------------
An ex-spy chief who spoke out publicly against Trump while inspiring other career intelligence figures to follow suit has admitted his leading role in the intelligence community waging political war against the president, describing his actions as something he didn’t “fully think through”. In a surprisingly frank interview, the CIA’s Michael Morell – who was longtime Deputy Director and former Acting Director of the nation’s most powerful intelligence agency – said that it wasn’t a great idea to leak against and bash a new president.

Thats a paraphrase, to me that is saying exactly what I paraphrased, its bullshit, obviously hey didnt say that out right and NOR did Infowars say that. You guys cant handle an argument or have any facts or evidence, all you can do is derail topics with pointless crap like this.

2017/12/13 21:00, Fieldy: 
:D :D :D

2017/12/13 21:18, Vra:   
Are you saying that the golden shower dossier is the only reason Trump was “being investigated”? I’m pretty sure that’s wrong

2017/12/13 21:21, Razoor: 
I actually had a serious look at Infowars today, and the content is mindblowingly bad. At least MSM tries to cover its biases, this site is something else...100% hyperbole, bias, titles that dont correspond at all to the content, no flow in the stories, complete disconnect between start and finish of a story...it’s so bad I dont even know where to begin. Very, very interesting that people believe in the content when its presented so poorly.

Anyway, Zepir, you managed to not at all respond to my point again. So lets repeat. Nothng about GDP growth is special to Trump, the market is behaving just about on average. Just look at growth curves over time, a simple google search is enough. Secondly, GDP growth does not automatically lead to prosperity. There are many steps before ordinary people even get close to those resources, where other policies come into play. Trump may increase GDP for example, but if he also increases tax, reduces subsidies, or ”accidentally” causes higher shop-prices due to pissing off half the world, the net outcome for people will not be beneficial. So for ordinary people, looking at GDP growth in isolation from other policies is entirely pointless. Ok?

2017/12/14 00:43, Bardock:  edited 2x   
so none of you have watched the congressional floor hearings on these investigations? You can have your opinion about Infowars but its really irrelevant if they are just reporting on something that is happening right now. You are free to have your opinions but opinion aside, I guess you dont understand or know anything about whats going on in America. Let me know when you decide to catch up and find out why the investigation is being shut down.

[submitted link]




[submitted link]
FBI Official Admits: Russia Probe ‘Insurance Policy’ to Derail Trump

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