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News 2620 : The Unseen Servants of the Necromancer (Jahara) catchup  discussions


2021/05/18 18:03, Pilois:  edited 1x   
Message 2620 : The Unseen Servants of the Necromancer (Jahara)
Edited on Tue May 18 17:46:50 2021

There is a Shadow in the east that lures evil things toward it with promises of power and knowledge. These terrible servants now gather before the fortress of Dol Guldur, competing to curry favor and rise within the Necromancer's ranks and gain access to his gifts.

And yet, these gifts are not given away freely, for the cost of such knowledge requires succumbing to the Dark Lord's will; an act that breaks those of frail mind and strains those of intellect. Nor are such gifts easily handled, for solely the Black Númenóreans have shown the strength of will to master this dark oath and wrap themselves in the Dark Lord's power to walk amongst their enemies unseen.

Credits
-------
Ideas: Almarian, Elemir, Orlanth
Design: Pilois, Rogon, Jahara
Testing: Elemir, Pilois, Orlanth
Code: Jahara
Reviews: Frór, Waba, Dáin, Imago

2021/05/18 18:53, Ragface: 
Indeed, we BNs finally needed the warrior guildmaster! Thanks all for the hard work.

2021/05/18 21:07, Cuantar: 
... Now I know what I'm going to log tonight. Thanks for making the decision easy!

2021/05/18 22:51, Ares: 
Adragor the commander tells you 'Should you dare to attempt to bind yourself to'
Adragor the commander tells you 'the Dark Lord, you will need to seek out an'
Adragor the commander tells you 'altar dedicated to him. You must pray at the'
Adragor the commander tells you 'altar, giving yourself wholly to his service.'
Adragor the commander tells you 'If successful, you will be granted the'
Adragor the commander tells you 'fortitude to recover more swiftly from both'
Adragor the commander tells you 'exhaustion and injury. However, you find your'
Adragor the commander tells you 'very psyche drained as the oath requires great'
Adragor the commander tells you 'focus to uphold. You may also find yourself'
Adragor the commander tells you 'shrouded in dark mists that will shield you'
Adragor the commander tells you 'from searching eyes.'
Adragor the commander tells you 'It takes good health to master this skill; an'
Adragor the commander tells you 'iron will and good eyesight are important too.'

Get DG citizenship, prac 'dark oath' from Adragor, ranger skill 23 pracs.

Find a Black Altar, type pray when Full.

Status effect - shadow veil

Otherwise I didnt really notice any effect, just maybe more move regen and less mana regen, aggro small shit still sees you and hits, tested with semi old age bn cleric.

2021/05/19 01:16, Reich: 
BN thieves are viable finally?

2021/05/19 02:33, Morgoth:   
Come now, Black Númenóreans!

Bow before Pilois Giloirn, the Shackle Destroyer!

2021/05/19 02:53, Valaphel: 
I wonder if it interacts with shroud. Shroud + dark oath ~ sneak?

2021/05/19 04:29, Jen:   
So it’s a skill that can only be used at a black altar? How long does it last? Does it prevent you from being seen from watch towers? Or prevent rangers from tracking you?
I was checking out aardawolf the other day, and I liked how when a change was made to the game they gave you useful information. Here it’s more of a take a few hours of your playtime to figure out how things work mindset.

2021/05/19 04:49, Jahara:   
One decision that we made was to make this news post more obscure than the previous Raise Dead spell news post. Black Númenóreans are the most difficult race to play and some players enjoy the immense challenge that they bring.

This is our first skill invention in line with the feedback we received in the player feedback thread. As before, we plan on doing more skill and spell reworks in the future.

Enjoy learning how to use this new toy optimally!

2021/05/19 07:52, Ares: 
Some players? What Dong? Most players just enjoy playing the damn game not figuring out some obscure skills for months, we also have lives.

2021/05/19 08:24, Jen:   
Well then thank you for the new skill geared towards those old players who play 8h session every day. I’ll just wait a few month and ask them if it is worth trying out. How foolish of me to think that a game would give you some kind of information on how skills work.

2021/05/19 12:21, Dong: 
I've been gone offline for a week or 2 and see this, thanks to all involved, we shall just have to wait and see if it helps thieves carve a place for them alongside the overpowered caster types.

2021/05/19 12:43, Cyndane: 
Investigating and learning is half of the fun if you ask me. I'm super excited about this!!

Much love my guys!

2021/05/19 14:06, Ryalnos:  edited 1x   
I don't know what the skill does, but it's not like it requires an obscure 10-step process to get and find out.

MUME's way has always been to clothe changes in RP rather than giving you a stat sheet to min-max. That might not be everyone's preference, and that's OK! But others might prefer to figure out the mysteries for themselves.

2021/05/19 15:56, Burk: 
Looking forward to new skills added. Even if they're shrouded in mystery.

Nice work.

I'd love to see racial charmed one day. Maybe even charge!

2021/05/19 16:26, Cyndane: 
Plus, I've spent approximately 61.764706% of my life playing this game, and when something new happens, it brings me back to the excitement of when the whole game was new.

Chasing that sweet, sweet nostalgia high.

2021/05/19 18:43, Marion:   
I hope next uppdate will be something for bears!! Then I will start playing again :-)

2021/05/20 09:54, Ragface: 
My BN warrior gained 30 OB with this new dark oath thing.

2021/05/20 10:02, Osilin: 
Could this mist be interpreted as kind of nolocate effect or maybe even notrack (or rather a bit harder to track).
Nolocate would have been nice back when locate hunting was in fashion.

2021/05/20 10:03, Oedipus: 
Cackle @Ragface

2021/05/20 10:38, Elestir:  edited 1x   
Haven't really tested it but from the description shown here in this thread I would guess it's +sneak +hp-regen +mp-regen -mana-regen. I.e. something tailored for BN thieves.

2021/06/01 09:20, Breaux: 
Any more input on this?

2021/06/01 10:10, Fieldy:  edited 2x   
I like it, very useful. I would say its basically bn version of cure light. Useful for saving up mana (don't have to use it to cure) and saving pracs (won't bother to prac cure serious as thief bn, helps to keep thief skills up).



[SPOILER]
If you kill a mob or a player, you will draw power from the kill which results in hps to you, the killer, therefore working like cure. Have gained approximately 10-20hps from a kill. The more knowledge and levels you have, the more often it happens (at least it seems that way) - heroish level I had moments where I gained it every 5th kill or something. Killed some mobs which ended up for me -80 hps, after that about 15 kills and I was full hps again. Also, sometimes you get shroud after the kill too.
If there are any other effects, I have not figured them out yet.

2021/06/01 10:32, Breaux: 
Thanks Fieldy. It sounds really cool. Curious to hear further input on this :-)

2021/06/01 10:57, Ares: 
105% Dark Oath tested. Gives +5 moveregen and unknown amount of base hp regen. Stops manaregen almost entirely so only suitable for pure bn thieves. Also lower % of Dark Oath has significantly less +hp boost and shroud trigger effects on kills.

105% triggers +hp and shroud basically on every Non-Orc, 5+ level mobs. Hp gain ranges from 5 to 80+ (high level good aligned mob or player).

Shroud is kinda useless as it doesnt work like blind, mobs that dont see shroud still mostly sense you.

Very cool skill by itself, but bn thieves still feel pretty shit. You have no defence, no ob, no hp, shit missile, no support spells (especially if oath on) and stab/sneak works so random because of the awareness bug/fuckup that it's still for the mostly massochistic people. Since the only way bn reliably kills stuff is backstab, then meeting those you-cant-stab-me elks and bears every so often just ruins all the fun.

2021/06/01 13:14, Akhas: 
I don't agree with you, Ares. I made a thief the day it was announced, leveled it right up to legend, and was warlord by level 26. I beat warriors 1v1, I beat mages 1v1 who then decided to portal 2 in with 2 hsg because they suck (go Pride go!) etc.

I actually got very few stabkills, and was still effective. You just have to play it completely differently than you'd play other chars, because yes, they do have a severe number of maluses.

Anyway, key thing to mention: you can't have any spells with oath up. When depressed, you actually get negative regen. I.E. I have no spells, but I just watch my mana drain away.

2021/06/01 14:09, Fieldy:   
Oh, I had no idea about the other stuff :D Thanks!

Agree with Akhas, totally playable. Played various scouts, the BN one is really simple - stab started to work on lvl 14, after that flying colours. Regarding BN thief PK, Akhas knows better, I'm still trying to figure out some of the details.

And overall, I am a masochistic person, so yup, suits me OK.

2021/06/01 14:41, Ryalnos:   
I am a fan of the approach used with dark oath.

BNs aren't suddenly powerful (still very fragile/weak), but they have a unique, RP consistent feature that further distinguishes their playstyle from other races while helping with two major quality of life issues (moveregen and healing). This makes it more feasible for pure scouts (with higher thief skills) to exist rather than having mandatory combo for healing and bob.

2021/06/02 10:36, Ares: 
Akhas in that regard bn warriors are just fine also, I have killed warriors and mages with it :-D ie I fail to see how that is proof in this context.

2021/06/02 13:33, Nude: 
And yet another skill that is impossible to get for months if you happen to be unlucky enough to be wanted in encampment. Please fix this so all BNs have the chance to practice the skill.
In my case, i managed to get citizenship with the help of friends at level 16 (of course, you cannot practice it until level 18, and there is no hint to this anywhere) then got tricked by a rogtar/vet wondering patrol that was in the room where static patrol usually is...1 missile and farewell citizenship and the possibility to practice for the next 1-2 months.

2021/06/02 16:47, Neamir: 
Is there some special interaction between dark oath and Sauron's darkness? Feels likely given the suspicious timing of the recent Darkness updates.

2021/06/02 17:00, Neamir: 
Is there some special interaction between dark oath and Sauron's darkness? Feels likely given the suspicious timing of the recent Darkness updates.

2021/06/28 11:36, Nude: 
this is even better than the new tps -> Adrâgor the commander tells you 'You'll die a painful death.'

2021/08/02 21:59, Cuuldur:  edited 1x   
I agree Nude. Nothing says innovation more than making a must have skill for a solo char require a decent group when darkie players are limited.

2021/08/03 03:55, Zintilden:   
Cuuldur...one sec...need a tissue here because 'boohoo'! 8) OK - I am usually not a fan of needing a group to get certain things myself either. My own thoughts/opinion on this Dark Oath topic though and nothing official:

1. It isn't meant for lower level players.

2. The 'group' portion is done once only. Someone can't get a group one time in their BN life? huh? The Shire is hiring I hear - go play a hobbit. 8)

3. Group of two even works, especially when one of them is a badass.

4. I've seen the same 2-3 players on at US evening hours basically for months now, and they are willing to do anything for all darkies if available - just for the sake of helping. (Cheers to you three for doing that and representing TEAM SAURON like bosses!)

5. It promotes traffic into the exterior DG area by darkies - hence more targets running around to bait pukes and Zaugurz into the woods to spar some against each other.

6. Some items (or achievements) in many games are & should be harder to receive - and in MUME this type of situation seems to often require a group (and it gives something for groups to do/help with).

Mmkay...kind of bored now, bye.

2021/08/03 04:06, Cuuldur:  edited 1x   
Wow. Just wow.

'The group portion is done once only' and this somehow 'promotes traffic' ?

You complained just a week ago cause you failed mixing an herblore, which of course was given to you.

2021/08/03 04:26, Zintilden:   
If you are a solo bn only doing it for dark oath, you only need to do it once and prac. So, what did you not understand? It is one more reason to do the smob though for others. Do I really need to break it down more for you?

WOW..JUST WOW! I wont play 'what about the time' games either, especially when it has nothing to do with this topic.


2021/08/03 05:37, Fieldy:   
I don't get the whine about dark oath. Its great, it made BN scouts a lot more playable. And I asked for help from people to get me the encampment citizen in order to prac dark oath. Wasn't hard, really.

2021/08/03 05:53, Osilin: 
What part is it that needs a group?

2021/08/03 09:31, Fieldy:   
To kill the Druidess to get the phial.

2021/10/07 19:24, Nazgum: 
A little proposal for anyone who wants to make a pure bn thief and try dark oath: Choose 17 dex 16 per.

Why? If you were going to make a thief-mage, or even an orc warscout, you choose max dex/per so u start at 109% backstab, but then u lower this to somewhere between 95% and 100% usually by practicing outside your class, grabbing a bunch of spells as thief-mage, or grabbing warrior skills as a warscout.

BNs cannot do this, and backstab has a cap on the damage it deals. At level 50, a BN with 100% backstab, or 109% backstab, will both still reach the same cap. As nazgum at near 80, he reaches this cap at 95% - so why would i want backstab percent higher, it gains me nothing?

17 dex 16 per is 100% backstab. It will never go lower because u can only prac thief and ranger (due to dark oath not allowing u spells)

But on top of that, if you choose those stats, you then have more stat points to do things like have 21 str (with age + str-ring) with 18 con, to can carry a lot, swap to a bigger weapon, have tons of moves, etc. all while still backstabbing for the same damage.

This lets BN thieves also feel a little more unique, because their stat choices are quite different from other thieves. So go give it a try =)

2021/10/07 20:28, One:   
Do you get a more consistent max stab if you have more than 100%.?

2021/10/07 20:57, Neamir: 
Nazgum's thoughtful and interesting post prompts the ultimate thief question - is the infamously high failure rate of stab a function of Backstab %, or more of Sneak %?

Has anyone ever measured the degree to which backstab success is a function of the base stab skill working vs. whether the target fails to perceive you?

2021/10/07 22:02, Nazgum: 
@One from my testing the way i think it works is backstab has a range of damage based on your level, at legend lets say its 100-260.

The higher skill % and thief lvl you have, the more you select from the upper range. So a lvl 30 with 109% backstab will almost always stab for near the max amount of 260, however they still can have total fail stabs of 100, just very rare. A lvl 30 thiefmage with 95% backstab will more likely stab in the middle range (180-220) - but they can still land max damage stabs.

Using the older simpler math:
a lvl 25 is lvl 25
a lvl 50 is lvl 27.5
a lvl 80 is lvl 30.5

I think the cap is around lvl 28.
A lvl 30 with 109% backstab would stab at lvl 27.795 (near cap)
A lvl 30 with 95% backstab would stab at lvl 24.225 (below cap)
A lvl 50 with 100% backstab would stab at lvl 27.50 (near cap)
A lvl 50 with 109% backstab would stab at lvl 29.975 (above cap)
A lvl 80 with 95% backstab would stab at lvl 28.975 (near cap)

Anything over that cap i feel is wasted.

2021/10/08 03:20, One:   
From my experience with scouts I believe you fail more sneaks than stab attempts.

I have 2 Zorc scouts with the same stats and levels. I used the to kill the ingrove gatekeeper for key quite often. My first one is almost pure 108% sneak/stab, he stabs the gatekeeper to awful almost everytime. My second has more warr skills and gets 105% sneak/stab, I have never stabbed the gatekeeper lower then bad. Both are above level 30, same weapon. My scout with 105% will also fail to stab much more often then my pure scout.

From this I assumed that the higher % sneak&stab gave me a higher stab damage. Or at least a much higher chance or landing a max damage stab.

2021/10/11 10:40, Antrax:edited 1x   
@Nazgum:

The stab cap is at 275hps (more if wound/poison tick, and such). Two things that will greatly affect your chance of hitting closer to the cap, are OB (and/or piercing) and Thief level.
While bn gets the thief level, they lack in the OB department. Unfortunately, this yields some very random results in backstab damage and those really annoying stab dodges. Lowering the stats would yield even more random results, and bn is barely working as is, but since its mostly randomness, its hard to tell how much of a hit you would take.
Your idea is valid, of course, and would love to see how it goes if you ever make that char. I was thinking myself of making a bn with like 18 dex and 14-15 per, but never got to it.

Edit: Even a pure high level thief will hit below stab cap every now and then, and its visibly more random once you combo out. I made a pure elf thief to test this (19 dex/per) and it still hits random stabs in its late 60's, even if you decay all non-thief.

@One: In your case, the 1st pure thief has higher thief level, compared to your combo, thus stabbing closer to the cap. Bet the damage also seems less random, and sneak fails less often.


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